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interacts online and researches product purchases As for accuracy, I hear a lot of my friends talking about the accuracy of their 45s over a distance compared to my 9 mm, but no one to date has outshot me on the range, and almost all of my friends have switched to a 9 millimeter in the past few years. Sorry for the lengthy comment just my humble opinion. Of Every Weapon In Battlegrounds Mobile India My department switched to +p for 45s. The 45 acp caused significant damage to the human body. This is pretty interesting BTW https://www.ammoland.com/2018/02/defense-against-bears-with-pistols-97-success-rate-37-incidents-by-caliber/. Has the Marine Corp's choice to transition from 45 ACP to 9mm duty pistols settled the debate on which caliber is better? Steel BB or 0.177" lead pellet at 450 ft/s will burst a human eye. Theres no reason to mince words a handgun for self defense exists to create damage to the human body. You can either hit a target or not that simple. While 9mm is not as good at killing men as the 45 Auto, it is smaller, lighter, cheaper, easier to handle, and allows more opportunities to miss the target.. All rights reserved. But with the way things are going today I decided it was time, so I just bought S&W M&P 9 Shield. I still prefer the .45. That the .45ACP slows down so much that its penetration is less effective than a 9mm? What we do know, however, is that when most people are shot, they fall down. Interesting. For those that think their their 45 is best, Ill shoot my 9mm and for those that think their 9mm is best, Ill shoot my 45. Many factors, including the moisture content, knot content, tree age and even the separation of the boards, can give rise to highly variable results. The latest testing shows that modern 9mm performs pretty much as well as the other common semi-auto options, and since it carries more rounds and is easier to shoot (and I dont care who you are, but it is easier/faster to shoot compared to the larger calibers), it is fairly sound logic to select the 9mm. However, the .45 would likely be stopped from penetrating but there was a 30% chance, with good shot placement its energy could stop the heart. Startle affect. Without fragmentation, temporary cavity wounds can be relatively minor. Lexipol. 10 Best ways to Make Money on Social Media and not waste time. I believe politics carries the most weight.The military sidearm is the least political concern as far as what other weapons are available for them.The beretta was a good example.Far from the best weapon compared to sig & glock,it got us a deal to put missles in Italy . They have to show the bean counters proof for the money to fund the switch of caliber. Riley, love your artical. I am not old. #firearmtraining. Okay 9s are cool, hold a lot of rounds, small recoil, cheap to shoot and buy. Since doing some research on the new ammo for the .380 acp, Ive decided that 17-22 of penetration from Lehigh & Ruger Personal Defense rounds, I carry the Browning Black Label .380. Many years ago in auto racing, there was a saying regarding power. Many do not discover the gun thats right for them as easily as you have (if they ever do)! One had a 9mm one had a .45who is gonna get up quicker to finish the job. But you still want the best caliber possible, because while people are disposed to fall down when shot, not every target does. For the sake of interest, some indicators of the penetrative powers of various types of ammunition follow: Virtually all calibres (excepting air weapons) will penetrate the tread or side wall of a motor vehicle tyre. Lets say it is winter and a large person is wearing very heavy clothing. I have my personal preferences and it is the .45 ACP, next is the 40 S&W, down the line a couple of notches is the 9mm. Using the cone attack gives you a low ammo condition that imposes disadvantage on attack rolls until you reload, and you have 2 reloads per day. My feeling is that the gun for you will be as individual as you are. But ideally you need a brush rifle. At 70, I choose to go small & straight! The sheriff convinced the county to issue all the deputies glock 9mms to standardize the weapons and ammunition within the department. The 5 Most Controversial Handgun Rounds Confirmed by projectiles taken out of Papa. I shot 8 watermelons, 4 for each gun. .45 ACP FMJ doesnt normally make bad people flop to the ground instantaneously unless it hits the brain or spinewhich is probably what happened, given his skills. Tests show that while it travels at 1,154 feet per second at 500 yards, slower than the .223 at that distance, the AKs bullet can deliver 370 foot-pounds of force, more than the AR. SEMPER FI. According to a sweeping 2016 survey, there were, at that time, more guns in the hands of Americans than there are cars on the road. You may as well go off and say Ill just take a Judge and shoot .410 buckshot, or .45 long colt if you are trying to inflict the most damage. Other human tissue in the body reacts differently. Their over 800 FPS and some approaching 900 FPS with the hotter +P loads. Guy KEPT COMING and managed to shoot back twice. Chiverss history of the assault rifle, The Gun: In the macabre world of terminal ballistics, the study of what happens when projectiles actually strike, much can be made of over-penetration: the phenomenon of bullets passing clean through their targets. The average criminal etc. Theres also the reaction of a surprise. .45 ACP 10 Round Magazine mobility debuff removed, and .45 ACP 17 Round Magazine mobility increased from 96% to 98%. However, from close enough range you could manage. So I want a round that will do the trick no matter if he flinches or I do. Also we are talking pistols. What I have also seen on the range at 25 yards, while shooting steel silhouette time after time, was the 9mm would fail to kick the silhouette out of the track 7 out of 10 times without placing another shot. The only other way to end an adversarys life-threatening action is through circulatory collapse. Pistol calibers can work well if you dispense them from an SMG and send lots of them at a time. Not to kill but enough to let us get to our guys or a firearms. The general plan of attack for officers is to use some weapon other than a handgun. In this dangerous time period, an officers adversary can continue his deadly actions against an officer. That has been the best comment so far. Sign up for new product alerts, company updates, and more! He watched MARSOC during a multi-national special forces competition, MARSOC couldnt compete with the low capacity 1911. I dont plan on using a handgun for long distance shooting. Head on over to the Concealed Carry Podcast for great audio content. .380 9mm .40 10mm or .45 one well placed shot and dead nothing really better about each round besides power and penetration they all kill in skilled hands and do there job in certain situations there is no better round than the one you train with period! And while you might think that lethality by caliber is the main factor you should be looking for, the simple fact is that while a 22 rimfire is deadly, it is far from the best round for incapacitating an assailant in the here and now. Tissue disruption caused by a handgun bullet is limited to two mechanisms: There are two places that we know will incapacitate a man every time they are hit: the brain and the upper spinal column. G19 vs custom 1911 equals a big price difference. There is also the very real factor of life-or-death, fight-or-flight stress. They also have a budget. So how can we expect people to take a human life so readily? He taught criminal law/procedure at the FBI Academy. This is just one of them: https://www.policeone.com/police-heroes/articles/6199620-Why-one-cop-carries-145-rounds-of-ammo-on-the-job/. You have renewed my faith in man. Then get ready for a gunfight. They are fine weapons and are certainly capable as a sidearm. Wounding one enemy combatant to take three out of the fight (or at least two) was a good argument when we were facing civilized enemies such as the Germans in WW II. Head and neck shot were down on contact if the hit bone, flesh hit required another shot. However I agree with you about a .22 in the right place is more deadly than a 50 in the wrong place. Then moved to 10mm (after the 1986 Miami shootout). Small, light, and more rugged than a lot plastic guns. Proper shot placement is the lamest argument based on logic. Im sorry but a 225 grain bullet going 850 1200+ fps vs a 127 grain bullet going 975 1150 fps is going to be more effective and deadly. He sure has screwed us military retires over the last several years! ammo. I can not remember a single specific instance of someone shot with JHP, where I knew for a fact at the time what I was looking at. This post reported that the FBI Training Division had reevaluated which handgun round was best for FBI agents and reached the following conclusions: The 2014 FBI Training Division Report stated that the FBI had chosen the 9mm bullet (147 grain Speer Gold Dot G2) for FBI agents to carry because, The 9mm provides struggling shooters the best chance of success while improving the speed and accuracy of the most skilled shooters.. This is because, unless you get a central nervous system hit extremely difficult there is no physiological reason a target would become incapacitated until blood loss and extreme loss of blood pressure occurs. Factors like these led to the military adopting the Colt .45 ACP pistol as its standard sidearm in 1911. However, it does suffer from the same issue as the .40s&w, and that is that its snappier in its recoil impulse. A 45acp will deliver more damage to a human body that a 9mm. 9mm. Request product info from top Ammunition companies. The new .50Ae desert eagle has as much recoil as the 1911/M45 which is unrealistc (the .45 has alot less recoil). To ensure fragmentation would be to make a round so fragile that it would virtually eliminate penetratration. human body Riley, love your artical. View our Terms of Service We look forward to serving you. I find the heavy slide helps with the .40 recoil and keeps the barrel from jumping. With a bone thats been shot with a standard-issue caliber handgun, youll see a break, a hole in the bone, and maybe some displacement. I am a colt Gvt. Let us know your thoughts in the comments below! All rights reserved. It is a very real possibility and one that should be considered. According to the Federal Bureau of Investigation, Hodgkinson was armed with a rifle that shot 7.62 caliber bullets. I have both, like them all, and carry them because rifles are hard to conceal! You're free to republish or share any of our articles (either in part or in full), which are licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 International License. Smith & Wesson Model 26 | Project: Aftermath Wiki | Fandom But I think the bigger point to be made is that it would not be wise to make a decision on a pistol or caliber simply because it is bigger, and therefore more manly. It should be made based on the merits and actual performance of the different calibers and/or pistols. Also, I have pretty much explained what you have just said. The 9mm isnt a garbage round but feeling better with these 230 grain Winchester Rangers loaded on my side. very obvious. What that means is that handgun bullets, as opposed to the devastating wound channels rifle projectiles can cause, are only just poking little holes in people. Shot placement was nearly identical. That should be the only real factor considered. It has something to do with occasions where they might carry concealed: Since last year, MARSOC has purchased and fielded 1,654 Glock 19s because Raiders needed a reliable secondary weapon that could be used for both a concealed carry profile and a low-visibility profile, and having one approved pistol for all special operators saves money, he said. Pain is generally physiologically irrelevant, but where present often just makes motivated targets angry and thus, more motivated. Copyright 2023 We were trained with a .45, to protect the patient. Damage: 22 per pellet. 0.38" Special P, 158 gr non-expanding bullet will, unless it strikes a bone, pass straight through a human body. The earlier FBI testing left no doubt that tissue displacement was greater with the larger rounds. All of this leads directly to the question of handgun wounding factors: the effectiveness of a handgun, lethality by caliber, and stopping power are all important considerations when purchasing a firearm for self defense. While each of them has no direct bearing on incapacitation, they must all be considered. But thats a subject for another article. at 2,690 feet per second, and slows to 840 feet per second at 500 yards. A 5 psi blast overpressure will rupture eardrums in about 1% of subjects, and a 45 psi overpressure will cause eardrum rupture in about 99% of all subjects. I sort of like the Canik TP9v2, with Browning BXP xpoint 147 gr load. 25 yard 1.52 off hand 5 rnd groups on the nose. there is no substitute for Cubic Inches. He also competes in USPSA and 3-gun competitions including numerous top-10 finishes at major matches and championships. True enough, but the dead enemy will not lie there or sit-up and shoot or pull the pin on a grenade on you as the wounded enemy might. With those factors in mind, Id prefer one of the calibers most likely to immediately incapacitate and prevent return fire. 158 gr 0.38" Special P and 0.357" Magnum semi-jacketed bullets will penetrate both sides of a human skull. We need to dial back our expectations of how effective a pistol is, regardless of caliber, barring brain or spine shots. Now they have announced they are moving back to the 9mm in the form of the new Gen5 Glock 17M. Bullets can also increase the surface area that transfers energy to targets by expanding, as in the case of hollow-point rounds. This was not a good CC gun so I traded it for a S&W 39-2 9mm. Why bullet size matters in police shootings | PoliceOne.com Penetration, velocity, expansion, its all there. Ive seen too many people want to hunt but do not have ability to take a animals life. Gimme a break! However, at 15 feet in your living room that is a concern regardless of what you are using unless you have a 22 or a 380.